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	<title>Comments on: How do you manage mailing lists?</title>
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	<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427</link>
	<description>Present Perfect</description>
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		<title>By: Philip Paeps</title>
		<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427&#038;cpage=1#comment-110315</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Paeps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 18:52:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427#comment-110315</guid>
		<description>A couple of notes, now that I&#039;ve had time to read what others wrote :)

Using Google Mail: do you really want Google to know what lists you read?  If you&#039;re already letting Google read your private email, all hope is lost for you already, but even just letting them know what lists you subscribe to, gives them an awful lot of information about you.  I would not feel comfortable with Google knowing that much.  But I don&#039;t feel comfortable with Google knowing *anything*, so I&#039;m statistically irrelevant.  In fact, it annoys me a little that I communicate with people who let Google read the email I send them and the email they send me but there isn&#039;t really anything I can do about that.

IMAP subscriptions: these are (supposed to be) server-side, not client-side, so you don&#039;t have to configure them per machine.  Unfortunately, IMAP subscriptions don&#039;t really seem to work most of the time.  Mutt completely ignores subscriptions as far as I know, and Apple Mail.app doesn&#039;t seem to be able to understand Dovecot&#039;s subscriptions.  It hasn&#039;t annoyed me enough to try to figure out why (I &quot;subscribe&quot; to all my mailboxes anyway).

List aliases: I used to subscribe with philip+listname@ to mailing lists, but many, many mailing lists have started hiding behind ridiculous &quot;web&quot; front ends that seem to think that &quot;+&quot; is not a valid character in an email address (it is!).  Also, this caused mailing list spam which wasn&#039;t caught by bogofilter for some reason to get filed with the mailing list.  I prefer for any spam the filter misses to land in my INBOX so I can immediately feed it to train the filter (happens rarely enough these days though).  I&#039;m too lazy to edit /etc/aliases on my mailserver every time I subscribe to a new list.

GMANE and stuff: meh ... I don&#039;t like webby things.  And as I wrote I really like a local archive of all my mail.  Using a header cache and reasonably well-implemented IMAP server, syncing large volumes of mail isn&#039;t too big of a problem.  Dovecot is perfectly happy (on a 64bit machine) with mailboxes with hundreds of thousands of messages in them (I have some of those).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of notes, now that I&#8217;ve had time to read what others wrote :)</p>
<p>Using Google Mail: do you really want Google to know what lists you read?  If you&#8217;re already letting Google read your private email, all hope is lost for you already, but even just letting them know what lists you subscribe to, gives them an awful lot of information about you.  I would not feel comfortable with Google knowing that much.  But I don&#8217;t feel comfortable with Google knowing *anything*, so I&#8217;m statistically irrelevant.  In fact, it annoys me a little that I communicate with people who let Google read the email I send them and the email they send me but there isn&#8217;t really anything I can do about that.</p>
<p>IMAP subscriptions: these are (supposed to be) server-side, not client-side, so you don&#8217;t have to configure them per machine.  Unfortunately, IMAP subscriptions don&#8217;t really seem to work most of the time.  Mutt completely ignores subscriptions as far as I know, and Apple Mail.app doesn&#8217;t seem to be able to understand Dovecot&#8217;s subscriptions.  It hasn&#8217;t annoyed me enough to try to figure out why (I &#8220;subscribe&#8221; to all my mailboxes anyway).</p>
<p>List aliases: I used to subscribe with philip+listname@ to mailing lists, but many, many mailing lists have started hiding behind ridiculous &#8220;web&#8221; front ends that seem to think that &#8220;+&#8221; is not a valid character in an email address (it is!).  Also, this caused mailing list spam which wasn&#8217;t caught by bogofilter for some reason to get filed with the mailing list.  I prefer for any spam the filter misses to land in my INBOX so I can immediately feed it to train the filter (happens rarely enough these days though).  I&#8217;m too lazy to edit /etc/aliases on my mailserver every time I subscribe to a new list.</p>
<p>GMANE and stuff: meh &#8230; I don&#8217;t like webby things.  And as I wrote I really like a local archive of all my mail.  Using a header cache and reasonably well-implemented IMAP server, syncing large volumes of mail isn&#8217;t too big of a problem.  Dovecot is perfectly happy (on a 64bit machine) with mailboxes with hundreds of thousands of messages in them (I have some of those).</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Paeps</title>
		<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427&#038;cpage=1#comment-110295</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Paeps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 15:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427#comment-110295</guid>
		<description>I also just let procmail put list traffic in Maildirs per list.  Disk space is cheap and I like having a &quot;local&quot; archive of mailing lists rather than having to rely on dodgy &quot;web&quot; archives in the sky.  They&#039;re no use to me when I&#039;m in the sky (on a plane) anyway -- which is when I get a lot of my work done!

In addition to the &#039;archival&#039; filters based on ^List-Id or ^TO_, I also have some more intricate filters that put a copy of very interesting mails in a separate mailbox.  A cron job keeps that mailbox mostly empty.  Similarly, I have procmail put IMAP flags on some messages it delivers (using a very sick hack in Perl which speaks IMAP directly, rather than using some module for it).  My procmail setup is quite sick in general.

Other than that, I also use Apple&#039;s Mail.app as a mail &#039;reader&#039;.  It has a concept of &quot;smart folders&quot; which works quite well.  Unfortunately, I can&#039;t figure out how to write mail with Mail.app, so I can&#039;t migrate to it completely.  Nor do I really feel like being tied to a fruit machine all the time.  Mutt will remain my primary mail client for the forseeable future.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also just let procmail put list traffic in Maildirs per list.  Disk space is cheap and I like having a &#8220;local&#8221; archive of mailing lists rather than having to rely on dodgy &#8220;web&#8221; archives in the sky.  They&#8217;re no use to me when I&#8217;m in the sky (on a plane) anyway &#8212; which is when I get a lot of my work done!</p>
<p>In addition to the &#8216;archival&#8217; filters based on ^List-Id or ^TO_, I also have some more intricate filters that put a copy of very interesting mails in a separate mailbox.  A cron job keeps that mailbox mostly empty.  Similarly, I have procmail put IMAP flags on some messages it delivers (using a very sick hack in Perl which speaks IMAP directly, rather than using some module for it).  My procmail setup is quite sick in general.</p>
<p>Other than that, I also use Apple&#8217;s Mail.app as a mail &#8216;reader&#8217;.  It has a concept of &#8220;smart folders&#8221; which works quite well.  Unfortunately, I can&#8217;t figure out how to write mail with Mail.app, so I can&#8217;t migrate to it completely.  Nor do I really feel like being tied to a fruit machine all the time.  Mutt will remain my primary mail client for the forseeable future.</p>
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		<title>By: guijemont</title>
		<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427&#038;cpage=1#comment-110279</link>
		<dc:creator>guijemont</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 14:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427#comment-110279</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been testing sup+offlineimap for about a month for my work email, and I am quite happy with it. Functionality-wise, it&#039;s quite similar to GMail (including fast search), but with a better editor (you can use your favourite one). In my setup, I get the important email right in my &quot;inbox&quot; space (stuff addressed to me + a few very important internal mailing lists I _have_ to read), and I basically tag the rest according to the mailing list it comes from. I get warned about new emails not in my &quot;inbox&quot; space, but in a way that is not invasive, and I can just have a look at them when I have some time for it.

The big drawback it has, that is not too annoying for me so far, is that you can&#039;t easily synchronise your emails between different clients/machines (especially the &quot;read&quot; state). This is OK for me because:
 - I have only one computer that I use for email (my laptop)
 - Not reading work emails on my phone turns out to be a life improvement :)

I still use gmail for my personal emails though (in that case, I prefer to be able to get them on my phone).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been testing sup+offlineimap for about a month for my work email, and I am quite happy with it. Functionality-wise, it&#8217;s quite similar to GMail (including fast search), but with a better editor (you can use your favourite one). In my setup, I get the important email right in my &#8220;inbox&#8221; space (stuff addressed to me + a few very important internal mailing lists I _have_ to read), and I basically tag the rest according to the mailing list it comes from. I get warned about new emails not in my &#8220;inbox&#8221; space, but in a way that is not invasive, and I can just have a look at them when I have some time for it.</p>
<p>The big drawback it has, that is not too annoying for me so far, is that you can&#8217;t easily synchronise your emails between different clients/machines (especially the &#8220;read&#8221; state). This is OK for me because:<br />
 &#8211; I have only one computer that I use for email (my laptop)<br />
 &#8211; Not reading work emails on my phone turns out to be a life improvement :)</p>
<p>I still use gmail for my personal emails though (in that case, I prefer to be able to get them on my phone).</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: foo</title>
		<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427&#038;cpage=1#comment-110159</link>
		<dc:creator>foo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 23:03:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427#comment-110159</guid>
		<description>This is the perfect use-case for notmuch! Subscribe to as many lists as you want and set your &quot;INBOX&quot; tag to ignore anything from a mailing list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the perfect use-case for notmuch! Subscribe to as many lists as you want and set your &#8220;INBOX&#8221; tag to ignore anything from a mailing list.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427&#038;cpage=1#comment-110139</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 21:13:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427#comment-110139</guid>
		<description>I do it exactly like the previous commentator. It works like a charm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do it exactly like the previous commentator. It works like a charm.</p>
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		<title>By: Calvin Walton</title>
		<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427&#038;cpage=1#comment-110136</link>
		<dc:creator>Calvin Walton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 20:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427#comment-110136</guid>
		<description>Since I have my email going through my domain (I&#039;m actually using the free version of Google apps), creating additional accounts and aliases is basically &quot;free&quot;. Right now I have two accounts, one as my primary email and another one that handles mailing lists. Each time I sign up for a mailing list, I&#039;ll give it a new email address, &quot;mailing-list@example.com&quot;, then add that address as an alias to the mailing list account. If I ever wanted to rearrange where the mail is going to, I can just move that alias to a different account. I then use Gmail&#039;s server-side filters to sort the mailing list messages into folders per list.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I have my email going through my domain (I&#8217;m actually using the free version of Google apps), creating additional accounts and aliases is basically &#8220;free&#8221;. Right now I have two accounts, one as my primary email and another one that handles mailing lists. Each time I sign up for a mailing list, I&#8217;ll give it a new email address, &#8220;mailing-list@example.com&#8221;, then add that address as an alias to the mailing list account. If I ever wanted to rearrange where the mail is going to, I can just move that alias to a different account. I then use Gmail&#8217;s server-side filters to sort the mailing list messages into folders per list.</p>
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		<title>By: Matěj Cepl</title>
		<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427&#038;cpage=1#comment-110130</link>
		<dc:creator>Matěj Cepl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 20:07:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427#comment-110130</guid>
		<description>Another +1 to gmane. With my Thunderbird works just fine via NNTP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another +1 to gmane. With my Thunderbird works just fine via NNTP.</p>
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		<title>By: Kris Buytaert</title>
		<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427&#038;cpage=1#comment-110121</link>
		<dc:creator>Kris Buytaert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 18:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427#comment-110121</guid>
		<description>Separate mailinglist account,   disabled during travel  and purged when I come back from hollidays etc :) 
Definitely not arriving on any of my mobile devices.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Separate mailinglist account,   disabled during travel  and purged when I come back from hollidays etc :)<br />
Definitely not arriving on any of my mobile devices.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Christof</title>
		<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427&#038;cpage=1#comment-110119</link>
		<dc:creator>Christof</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 18:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427#comment-110119</guid>
		<description>I use gmail for everything. I am subscribed to a few of the fedora and redhat lists and for various packages I build. But I never use email off-line, so the sync is not needed. 
Before I switched to gmail I used procmail and mutt for all mail, which pretty much worked the same but at some point I couldn&#039;t be bothered to install it on yet another machine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use gmail for everything. I am subscribed to a few of the fedora and redhat lists and for various packages I build. But I never use email off-line, so the sync is not needed.<br />
Before I switched to gmail I used procmail and mutt for all mail, which pretty much worked the same but at some point I couldn&#8217;t be bothered to install it on yet another machine.</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas</title>
		<link>http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427&#038;cpage=1#comment-110110</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jan 2012 17:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thomas.apestaart.org/log/?p=1427#comment-110110</guid>
		<description>I was thinking about moving to gmail as well just for lists, but I want to not lock myself out of possibly switching to gmail for my real people mail too.  Also, I have more than 1GB of list mails I&#039;m interested in, and I have found that gmail&#039;s offline sync feature is pretty unreliable...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thinking about moving to gmail as well just for lists, but I want to not lock myself out of possibly switching to gmail for my real people mail too.  Also, I have more than 1GB of list mails I&#8217;m interested in, and I have found that gmail&#8217;s offline sync feature is pretty unreliable&#8230;</p>
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